In this episode, I speak with Joseph Scalia, president of the Gallatin Yellowstone Wilderness Alliance in Bozeman, Montana. Joe is a practicing psychoanalyst in Livingston and brings a unique perspective to the wilderness movement through his vocation. We talk about the climate, ecological and biodiversity crisis on earth, group psychosis and pathological thought processes, how the Big Greens use propaganda to further their agenda, corporatization of the Big Greens, society’s death drive to “have fun”, misrepresentation of Montanan’s desires to protect Wilderness Study Areas, Joe’s time as president of the Montana Wilderness Association, his awakening and realization that he was participating in a destructive system, how to change hearts and minds within captured conservation groups, the social fallout from leaving the pack and the spiritual gains of speaking the truth and seeking higher purpose.